I’ve dined with food bloggers many a time and I don’t think we’ve ever asked if we can take photos. Maybe that should change but the fact that no restaurant (aside from The Ivy, London because of their celebrity clientele and they state no photographs on their menu) has ever had an issue with it would lead me to suggest that asking before taking is the norm. However if someone had told us nicely, we wouldn’t have had a problem. The fact was, we weren’t asked nicely. Another thing to consider if that we’re paying for the food and/or drink and if I had gotten something takeaway, I could have done whatever I wanted with it as I’ve paid for it. If someone is wanting to copy something, they’d take it away and analyse it at their leisure. Also if we are talking Intellectual Copyright, their “Wagon” is not an original idea either as it is based on an existing item.

I do not wish to keep debating it with Josh, I can see that he staunchly believes that he was in the right the entire time and whenever I hear the words Cafe Ish it’s just a very unpleasant memory for me. I feel sorry for any tourist that whips out a camera because they are taken with Ai’s pretty cappucino pattern only to get an “assertive” Josh pointing a finger in their face shouting at them that they aren’t allowed to.

Hi B-Yes I agree, visual presentation of the food in question is not unique to Cafe Ish. The recipe itself can be subject to intellectual property laws but even a list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted.

Hi Y-As B mentioned, there wasn’t anything particularly unique to them, it was a burger, a loin of pork, an omelette and a curry and a coffee with a pattern I have seen done similarly in the past. Yes if asked nicely, it would be a vastly different situation.

And like Josh has arbitrarily decided that everyone needs to ask before taking a photo I’ve decided to close comments on this story, although I’ve never closed comments on any story before. Discussing Cafe Ish only brings up unpleasant dining memories.

I just think it’s unfortunate the situation was handled so badly by the owner. Most people are happy to put away their cameras, if asked to nicely.

Seems like a tricky legal area, and from the photos above, the food doesn’t look particularly original visually. So how could you tell, for example, the burger in the photo above from a thousand other burgers available in Sydney cafes, just by looking at a photo of it? And if you can’t tell the difference, how can you prove that you have rights to the visual aspect of that burger?

Living in Surry Hills I’ve been to Cafe Ish quite often.
I’d totally agree that the the food and coffee are excellent. Some of the best available in the area. I’ve always found that the staff members are always very friendly.

Regarding your negative experience, I think there needs to be some consideration of both sides. I can understand that being yelled at and ‘told off’ is never pleseant. But, as your friend said on her blog, you normally ask before taking photos, but didn’t in this case. Sure, its understandable to forget something like that. But in that respect, I think you need to also consider other perspectives, since it seems to me that you both made errors.

For example, regarding the disparity over yelling vs being assertive, the kitchen of Ish is a small but very busy place, which can easily muffle talking if you’re inside it. I’d suggest that Josh has probably had to learn to talk louder to make himself heard by those outside it. When rushing out to tell something to someone, this could come out as yelling, when it is not the intention. Thus, its reasonable to think that both descriptions of the event were accurate. I doubt it was Josh’s intention to yell at you, as I doubt it was your intention to covertly take photos for publication. Also I’d add that there is a difference between taking photos in front of paid staff, and in front of the owner – who’s reputation and livelihood you are critiquing. I’d be willing to bet that if you started a photoshoot of his food in front of Ramsey himself (without asking/explaining) you’d get a significantly bigger (and intended) earful! Of course, Ramsey also has a big name already, so a negative reviews or two means a lot less, in fact it’s expected as people’s experiences will always differ.

Anyway, perspective is everything, and imo its important to consider as many as possible in all situations. I’d suggest that others reading this blog, and similar, focus on the quality of food. Yes, some places have terrible service (or food) but Ish is not one of them.

BTW you might want to have a look at the 1st page of eatability. Two people have written about a similar sort of thing.

Yes most people are more than happy for you to take photos, the only one time I wasn’t allowed to was at The Ivy and they said so politely and discreetly (and it was also on the menu)

Hi Josh-No, let’s not misrepresent something, you did shout and the whole cafe did stare and stop whatever they were doing and yes we were made to feel like criminals for what? Taking a photo of a coffee. You were not being assertive. If you’ve read Christie’s review, she called it yelling and it was.

I thought that I was more than fair on you in my story and 100% accurate in reporting how things happened. I think it would be a shame as you’re a great cook but personality goes a long way and sorry dealing with people like this doesn’t do it for me.

As Adriano Zumbo said, bloggers are a great way of cataloging intellectual property. The photos and visits are dated so using blogger’s photos and stories, you can easily show the original source of an idea using a timeline. Besides which, anyone that wants to copy anything can do it with a piece of paper or simply by looking at something and remembering it.

I’ve eaten in plenty of places all around the world where intellectual property would be an issue (Gordon Ramsay, Alain Ducasse, Joel Robuchon, Iron Chef Sakai, Iron Chef Michiba) and everyone has been more than polite and interested and happy for us to take photos. It’s a pity you’ve gone the other way.

Most people (from waiters to my friends) just laugh at me when they catch me taking photos, but the waiters and chefs alike seem quite happy when I say that their food is so good it deserves to be captured in print. Note to self: get business card.

Hi Y-Very pretty coffee indeed! I don’t know what people have been saying really beyond what I’ve read which has been positive. I suppose some others have commented on having “run ins” with Josh and Ai but nothing about the food or coffee itself.